What did the president know, and what did Bob Woodward tell him?
In this case, the president is Donald J. Trump, and what legendary journalist Bob Woodward told him is a story in itself.
In 2019, Woodward began a series of recorded interviews with then-President Trump for a book that was scheduled to be published before the 2020 presidential election. The book, eventually titled “Rage,” may have been planned as a history of the Trump foreign policy, but when COVID hit, Woodward’s tape recorder captured both what the president was doing and what people were telling him to do.
Surprisingly, one of the people telling him what to do was Bob Woodward. Framing his questions as simply relaying the concerns of “people I’ve talked to,” Woodward sounds like a messenger for the permanent government bureaucrats, intelligence officials and national security “experts” that Trump derided as incompetent during his 2016 campaign and his presidency.
It’s all on tape, or rather, on a set of CDs called “The Trump Tapes.”
When Trump talks about his good working relationships with the leaders of North Korea, China and Saudi Arabia, Woodward lets Trump know that “people I’ve talked to” object to the president’s “shadow communications system.” This system appears to be simply a telephone, used without the permission of the people who work for him.
In another call, Woodward badgers Trump to apologize for the phone calls with Ukraine’s President Zelensky that led to his first impeachment. “I did nothing wrong,” Trump tells the journalist, but Woodward doesn’t let up. “I’m going to tell you from experience — if Nixon had gone on TV and said ‘I apologize,’ it would have gone away.”
“I wouldn’t apologize if I did nothing wrong,” Trump said.
“It would go away,” Woodward insisted.
“It would be a disaster,” Trump said. “I did nothing wrong.”
But the wildest call in the collection is a recording from April 5, 2020, about the COVID pandemic. Woodward leads into it with a voice-over recorded later, a device he uses repeatedly to add context, argue with Trump’s assertions and share his low opinion of the former president.
Woodward tells his audio audience that he spent weeks interviewing the “medical experts,” including Anthony Fauci, and it was apparent that Trump “was not listening.” Therefore, this could not be a “regular interview,” Woodward said, because he “had a personal responsibility beyond just being a reporter.”
On the recorded call, Woodward begins by asking Trump, “Are we going to go to full mobilization? People, at least that I’ve talked to, say they want the feeling of full mobilization.”
Then Woodward asserted that the federal government should take over COVID testing, but Trump told him that testing is a state responsibility.
“Still,” Woodward responded, “a lot of people are saying we need a Manhattan-like Project.”
That’s a reference to the government, scientific community and military working together in secret to build the atomic bomb.
During the call, Woodward urged Trump, “If you come out and say, this is full mobilization, this is a Manhattan Project, we are going, pardon the expression, b**** to the wall, that’s what people want.”
“We’re doing a great job,” Trump said. “No matter how good a job I do, I’ll never get credit from the media and I’ll never get credit from Democrats who want to beat me desperately in seven months.”
“If you go out and say this is full mobilization, we are in a Manhattan Project state,” Woodward began, “the medical supply chain. The people I talk to say they still aren’t satisfied with it.”
At this point you can hear Trump exhale with exasperation.
“They wonder if you’re going to federalize it,” Woodward said. “Is that possible?”
“We’re getting very few complaints,” the former president answered.
Woodward asserted that “people I’ve talked to” want to know if there’s a system for unemployment benefits. Trump said he’s “totally opposed” to distributing the money “the way Democrats wanted it,” through the unemployment offices. “Many of them have 40-year-old computers,” he said.
Trump was certainly right about that.
“I’m just telling you as a reporter,” Woodward said, that the country needs “a national order” to shelter in place, federal control of the food supply, a person who will be the “focal point of coordinating with all the other countries ,” “a national definition of ‘essential worker,’” a ban on airline travel and the shutdown of China’s wet markets. He said something also needs to be done about near-empty airline flights and “small government Republicans.” And the country needs a “vaccine antibody czar.”
Woodward asked Trump if he was meeting regularly with his CIA Director, Gina Haspel. “Do you feel you know what’s going on in the world?” he asked.
“Better than any president has known in 30 years,” Trump answered.
Woodward reminded Trump that he has been interviewing presidents for 50 years.
“I know, I’m listening to every word you’re saying,” Trump said.
But at that point it sounds as if Trump has reached a conclusion about the conversation. He tells Woodward that he has “people waiting downstairs” in a meeting, but asks him to read out “the list of the things you said.”
Sounding pleased, Woodward went through the list of demands again, couching them as “people are telling me….” Trump interjects occasionally with, “Awright,” “I got it,” “Let’s move it along,” and “Go ahead.”
When the call finally ends, Woodward’s wife, journalist Elsa Walsh, is heard on the recording.
“What do you think? Woodward asked.
“You were really shouting at him,” Walsh answered.
“I was. To get a word in edgewise,” Woodward said.
Former President Trump filed a lawsuit against Woodward over the commercial release of these tapes, which he said was unauthorized. However, if you listen to them, Trump comes off far better than the reporter who was trying to run the country from behind a tape recorder, and far, far better than the bureaucrats who were trying to run the country from behind a reporter.
Write Susan@SusanShelley.com and follow her on Twitter @Susan_Shelley
